40:06

S01:E03 Jul 14, 2026

Outlandish - The tech agency with no boss and no shareholders

Outlandish is a digital agency in Finsbury Park, London with no boss and no shareholders — a worker co-operative, owned and run by the people who do the work, that puts its profits into social projects like the community workspace Space4. In this episode Chris spoke with two of its member-owners, Natasha Natarajan and Maddy Neghabian, about running a business by consent rather than hierarchy, and about a strange new problem: now that “it’s almost become mainstream to be good,” how do you explain why a genuinely democratic model is different? We get into surviving a shrinking market and the arrival of AI on their own terms, why co-ops remain so hard to fund, and the cultural barrier beneath it all — a business world still built around the lone entrepreneur. As they put it, “we take the risk together and we support each other.” Listen and browse the full archive at https://content.changingthenarrative.media Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 01:43 Exploring Outlandish’s mission and services 04:18 What sets Outlandish apart? 05:52 Outlandish’s unique selling point 09:13 Challenges in the co-op sector 11:59 Adapting to AI in the workplace 13:46 Maintaining cooperative values 16:41 The two-tiered system of membership 21:29 Funding challenges and the co-op model 25:30 The struggles of co-ops in a competitive landscape 29:18 Fostering collaboration and new business models 31:59 Co-op vs conventional business experience 34:56 Challenging conventional business narratives 35:23 Promoting co-op awareness and education Outlandish: https://outlandish.com/ · Space4: https://space4.tech/ · Co-operatives UK: https://www.uk.coop/ · CoTech: https://coops.tech/ New episodes of How (Not) To Do Business are available every second Tuesday. If you’d like to support the show, please consider becoming a paying member.

49:18

S01:E02 Jun 30, 2026

Calverts - How a worker co-op outlasted the collapse of London's print trade

This week on How (Not) To Do Business, Chris King sits down with Cherry Haynes and Siôn Whellens of Calverts, the East London design and print co-operative founded in 1977. Calverts has no managers and complete pay parity — everyone earns the same — and it has outlasted almost every other printer in London. Cherry and Siôn explain why the co-op is happy to hire people who are sceptical of co-ops rather than true believers, how it survived the collapse of London’s print industry by refusing to compete on price, and why they care more about who controls a business than who owns it. Along the way: a 16-year average staff retention, what happens when someone has to leave a place with no line managers, the difference between co-operatives and Employee Ownership Trusts, and practical first steps for anyone thinking about starting one. Chapters: 00:00 Show introduction 01:14 Introducing Calverts 02:27 How Calverts works as a co-op 03:07 Who they hire — and why 06:56 Surviving London’s declining print industry 09:37 How the culture has changed 12:57 Staff retention and tough decisions 17:35 Learning from other co-operatives 20:17 Managing informal hierarchies 23:00 New generations and systemic change 25:54 Barriers to wider co-op adoption 31:02 Hope and agency in the face of systemic change 35:19 Co-ops vs Employee Ownership Trusts 40:57 How to get started 44:13 The business myth Calverts challenges 45:44 Further resources Resources mentioned: Calverts — https://www.calverts.coop/ workers.coop (Worker Co-op Federation) — https://www.workers.coop/ Stir to Action — https://www.stirtoaction.com/ Centre for Democratic Business / 21st Century Social Clubs — https://www.democraticbusiness.org/ CoTech (tech co-ops network) and forum — https://www.coops.tech/ / https://community.coops.tech/ Find this episode and the full archive at content.changingthenarrative.media, where you can become a member and sign up for the newsletter.

48:38

S01:E01 Jun 11, 2026

Suma - Inside Europe's biggest equal pay workers' co-operative

Discover how Suma, the Europe’s largest equal pay worker-owned co-operative, challenges conventional business paradigms and proves that ethical, egalitarian practices can sustain a thriving enterprise. This deep dive explores their innovative approach to ownership, pay equity, decision-making, and resilience in a capitalist world. This episode offers practical insights into building sustainable, ethical workplaces that defy traditional hierarchies. Whether you’re a business leader, entrepreneur, or activist, understanding Suma’s approach can spark ideas about reimagining work for fairness, resilience, and community benefit. Subscribe and Support: https://content.changingthenarrative.media BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/changingnarrative.bsky.social RESOURCES & LINKS Suma: https://www.suma.coop workers.coop: https://www.workers.coop PunchCard Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@workerscoop⁩ The Hive Cafe Huddersfield: https://hivecommunity.org.uk Guest: Beau Bulman Host/Creator: Chris King MAIN INSIGHTS INCLUDE Suma’s origins in the late 1970s countercultural movement, emphasising community and vegetarian ideals. The core principle of equal pay regardless of role, tenure, or hierarchy How a decentralised, democratic decision-making process works at scale with 250+ members Recruitment practices focused on shared values and work ethic, not just skills The internal and external barriers to adopting models like Suma’s in traditional businesses The impact of culture and collective responsibility on organisational resilience Strategies for integrating democratic principles into conventional business structures The importance of transparency, feedback, and collective accountability Challenges related to growth, decision-making speed, and geographic autonomy How worker cooperatives like Suma can influence wider societal narratives about work and ownership TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction 03:07 What is Suma 09:05 The source of Suma’s resilience 10:59 How to recruit for the right people 14:08 Are there opportunities for the older and less able? 16:20 Adaptability and Resilience in Operations 17:23 Attracting Specialists in a Cooperative Model 21:01 The Impact of Equal Pay on Workplace Culture 23:09 Feedback Mechanisms and Performance Reviews 25:44 Informal Hierarchies and Team Accountability 28:46 Challenges of Direct Democracy in Business 31:30 Balancing Autonomy and Decision-Making 33:34 Implementing Sociocracy and Team Autonomy 35:38 Empowering Workers and Redefining Roles 39:12 Barriers to Egalitarian Workplaces 43:37 Challenging Traditional Business Narratives 44:36 Other co-op-related organisations to explore